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Thread: Officer/Enlisted Marriage?

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    Default Officer/Enlisted Marriage?

    I believe we already know the answer to this, but we are just trying to get a better idea.

    An Officer and an Enlisted SM want to get married but do to fraternization, can't. However, they are not and have never been in the same Chain of Command and they are not even in the same country.

    They asked someone at Jag who stated if the situation came across his desk, he would reject it due to the fact they are not in the same COC. The enlisted SM is not and cannot use it to their advantage in anyway.

    The two met in a bar and as the put it "time stood still" when they first saw each other. They say they couldn't help that they fell in love and the officer is willing to put it all on the line for her (at least so he claims). They have even been crazy enough to say they want to make an example out of themselves to help fight this fraternization policy when it doesn't effect the work place.

    What should I suggest to them?

    Please provide references with your comments if possible.
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    Moderator MPclk2006's Avatar
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    What fraternization? They are not in the same Chain, go get married, why "make an example"...plenty of Officer/Enlisted marriages out there...this wont be the first or last...my Warrant Officer in Korea was married to a Sergeant First Class (SFC)...
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    Short Timer CWO Sharkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anonymous2132 View Post
    I believe we already know the answer to this, but we are just trying to get a better idea.

    An Officer and an Enlisted SM want to get married but do to fraternization, can't. However, they are not and have never been in the same Chain of Command and they are not even in the same country.

    They asked someone at Jag who stated if the situation came across his desk, he would reject it due to the fact they are not in the same COC. The enlisted SM is not and cannot use it to their advantage in anyway.

    The two met in a bar and as the put it "time stood still" when they first saw each other. They say they couldn't help that they fell in love and the officer is willing to put it all on the line for her (at least so he claims). They have even been crazy enough to say they want to make an example out of themselves to help fight this fraternization policy when it doesn't effect the work place.

    What should I suggest to them?

    Please provide references with your comments if possible.
    lol time stood still. Sounds more like lust to me lol

    http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justi...ation.-ukn.htm

    http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/...ation.-u3q.htm

    (1) Ongoing business relationships between officers and enlisted personnel. This prohibition does not apply to landlord/tenant relationships or to one-time transactions such as the sale of an automobile or house, but does apply to borrowing or lending money, commercial solicitation, and any other type of ongoing financial or business relationship. In the case of Army National Guard or United States Army Reserve personnel, this prohibition does not apply to relationships that exist due to their civilian occupation or employment.

    (2) Dating, shared living accommodations other than those directed by operational requirements, and intimate or sexual relationships between officers and enlisted personnel. This prohibition does not apply to

    (a) Marriages that predate the effective date of this policy (March 1, 2000)

    (b) Situations in which a relationship which complies with this policy would move into noncompliance due to a change in status of one of the members (for instance, a case where two enlisted members are married and one is subsequently commissioned or selected as a warrant officer).

    (c) Personal relationships outside of marriage between members of the National Guard or Army Reserve, when the relationship primarily exists due to civilian acquaintanceships, unless the individuals are on active duty (other than annual training) or Full-time National Guard duty (other than annual training).

    (d) Personal relationships outside of marriage between members of the Regular Army and members of the National Guard or Army Reserve when the relationships primarily exists due to civilian association and the Reserve component member is not on active duty (other than annual training) or Full-time National Guard duty (other than annual training).

    (f) Soldiers and leaders share responsibility, however, for ensuring that these relationships do not interfere with good order and discipline. Commanders will ensure that personal relationships which exist between soldiers of different ranks emanating from their civilian careers will not influence training, readiness, or personnel actions.

    (3) Gambling between officers and enlisted personnel.


    I remember a Captain and a SFC had to get married before the item I bolded took effect. Its a no-go now.
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    I believe that the couple in question is way past the lust phase. I know personally that both of them have done a lot and are willing to do more to be together. They have been apart geographically for 4 months there relationship is stronger than ever.

    Here is something I found in my research. It is from an attorney who has extensive knowledge of Military Law:

    No service member can be prevented from marrying. There was a time when the service would use the marriage as proof that unlawful fraternization had occurred beforehand, but it is rare today. The best way to discourage that would be to be discreet. However, althought there is no requirement to "register," a change in your marital status must be reported so that your records are accurate. You keep a marriage confidential at your own risk. You could be subjected to disciplinary action for failing to report your marriage if it is ever discovered. Some service members choose to have one member leave active duty, or go into the reserves, to moot the issue. Check your service's regulations or inquire at the base legal assistance office for more information.
    Neal Puckett
    The Law Firm of Puckett and Faraj, PC
    2181 Jamieson Ave #1505
    Alexandria, VA 22314

    This is what I understand so far, there is nothing that really is cut and dry about it. There is always room for different views. Given what attorney Puckett stated, " The best way to discourage that would be to be discreet." This would be one way they could go. Another way as stated in the references provided by warrantofficerlq the couple can continue their relationship if one of them joins the Reserves or Guard. Ultimately, it is still up to the Commander of the individuals to pursue prosecution of violation of Military Law. Given the OPTEMPO of the armed forces it is in my opinion that if there command does bring it up for punishment they have to much time on their hands. To waste time and resources on something not as important, especially if the relationship is not interfering in any way with their military career (not even in the same country) and there are two wars going on.
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    Default re-read my post

    Did you understand that they will be prohibited from getting married? There is no legal precedent that will allow them to. Next time provide links in your post as a credible reference as I did with mine.

    Why are you researching for them unless you are one of the parties lol

    Here is a link again.
    http://blissmwr.com/clubs/ar4-14.pdf

    http://www.chadwickhugh.com/bb/viewt...hp?f=30&t=4770

    Tell me, how would they be able to enroll in the Army Married Couples Program if they are in direct violation??

    http://usmilitary.about.com/od/armya...riedassign.htm

    or go to http://www.militaryonesource.com/hom...ch=&Component=

    call up the lawyer and get some advice. Its that simple.

    Why waste time researching when you can get the answer from an expert.
    Last edited by CWO Sharkey; 01-24-2010 at 12:29 AM.
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    Ok this is an update. I just ran into a JAG officer. The JAG officer said they could get married but they cannot date lol. Once they are married, they are good to go. But if they caught dating; then they will be repercussions.
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    So if they get married, there will be no punishments and they can be in the open about it?
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    yup, but apparently cannot be open about their relationship beforehand, only afterwards, so they met, fell in love, got engaged and got married on the same day if any body asks LOL...
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    Got it, they can "not" be dating if they do not want to have problems. Now, after they are married there are no repercussions. I will still advise them to talk to their JAG on site, just to be sure. So, just as I said earlier there is no cut and dry answer to this problem. They tried to make it so but, it's impossible in this situation. Thank you all for your help. As the old saying goes " you can't tell someone who they can or can't fall in love with " I can say this much with this new information the Army might be keeping two very dedicated Soldiers.
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    Cool Fraternization

    That advice is good and all but not that accurate in reality. I am a CPT in the Army. My wife is a SGT. We met on Match.com and married after 3 months. We work in separate BDE's. We never registered our marriage certificate and carried on as if we weren't married. Her chain of command heard a rumor that she had married an officer. They got nosy and opened a 15-6. She told them the truth and put it all out there. I went to my commander and let him know everything. He went and tried to squash it. No dice. It went straight to the Post Commanding General like wildfire. He was pissed. My chain of command recommended I be allowed to continue with my PCS and she be allowed ETS within a month. The CG sent it to JAG to see what he could do with it. Now waiting to find out. So that whole once you're married, you're good, thing isn't right.
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